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futuristxen



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19373
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt
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ecapataz wrote:
futuristxen wrote:

Do lesbians have sex because they want to reproduce?



Technically speaking Lesbians can't have sex (or reproduce). Not sure how its relevant.



Wrong.

futuristxen wrote:

When a John sleeps with a prostitute does he intend to reproduce?



The intention isn't there but the desire to reproduce is what guided him into that transaction from the beginning.

[/quote]

Yeah no. The pleasure of sex is what drives most sexual encounters. Reproduction is a. Afterthought if it is a thought at all. See also masturbation.

futuristxen wrote:

People like sex because they find it pleasurable. Not because they intend to reproduce.



Agreed but the urge to procreate is the strongest catalyst of sex.[/quote]
Post Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:03 am
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Finn



Joined: 05 Jan 2011
Posts: 53
Location: Boston, MA
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GrantherBirdly wrote:
yeah but behaviors can eventually decouple from the instinctual drives that formed them. We all eat food. You could argue we do this for survival, and you'd be right. But survival is only one part of what constitutes "eating" nowadays. We also eat for pleasure, sociality, courtship, status signalling, self-hatred, etc. If we just ate for survival I'd be shoveling GrapeNuts by the handful in my mouth for every meal. Same goes for clothes. We originally wore clothes (I'd imagine) to protect ourselves from the elements. And while that's still a definite reason we do so, it's now one of many other reasons. For example, see Reebok Pumps.
Post Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:16 am
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ecapataz



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 1960
Location: Bonn, Germany
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futuristxen wrote:
ecapataz wrote:
futuristxen wrote:

Do lesbians have sex because they want to reproduce?



Technically speaking Lesbians can't have sex (or reproduce). Not sure how its relevant.



Wrong.



Nope, you're confusing stimulation with sex which aren't the same things.
Post Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:46 pm
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DeadAwake



Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 576
Location: Aus.
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Anyone following the gang rape incident and the string of events following it in India? That has exploded. I do like that people can come together for such a cause, but i believe there is a good deal of hysteria. As with all similair mass protests. Part of the lack of communication is undoubtedly that male superiority dominates governments too.

I absolutely support the call for harsher penalties against rape and abuse against women, since sometimes a slap on the wrist is administered and from what ive heard that seems to be case in India much of the time.

Ultimately, i believe the judicial system is an attempt at externalizing morals, which should be a back-up to inner conscience. However it seems that a good portion of people do not wish to struggle with themselves to crystallize their own conscience, independent of an external system. And im talking of those, who think of themselves as good people.
Post Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:52 am
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8547
Location: Third Coast
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This article isn't really about gender roles, or even love, but I did think it was an interesting look on dating. In the end, though, I thought the author was way off base.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/fashion/the-end-of-courtship.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

While I agree that there has been a large increase in 'asynchronous communication,' this does appear to be a trend limited to the slightly younger generation. As I was reading this I couldn't help but think that I just missed being a part of that much more impersonal sort of interaction. Regarding 'mancession,' the author does not define the term, though I took it to mean a lack of available men in the dating scene. As for the content of the article itself, I thought it was a lot of quasi-scare-mongering, in that the scenarios presented don't, at least in my experience, represent what is typical or normal. I also don't think that economics plays as large a factor, if it plays any role at all, as the author does. This isn't the Great Depression, for God's sake! And there are certainly ways for a young man to impress a woman on the cheap. The author seems to be under the impression that a "date" consists of something expensive, but this is false. In my definition, a date is any one-on-one activity designed to get to know someone better, with the distinct intention of intimacy if things go well. For instance, how well can you get to know someone at a movie, as compared to a party at someone's house? If anything, it is easier to talk to someone in the latter example, even with others around, which further puts a wrench in the author's argument. At any rate, if one is short on money one can easily take someone else on a date through a park, or for coffee, or to a museum, or to a flea market. This is also a really great way to gauge what kind of person you've taken an interest in. Do the like nature, coffee or tea, art, or shifting through trash for treasure? If things go well, then you know you have someone who's at least worthy of a second, and perhaps more expensive, second date. If not, then you at least got to do things you already enjoyed anyway. All of this is to say that I think the article, while well-written, was ill-conceived, and should have focused more on non-traditional dating or date alternatives (as opposed to this anxiety-provoking piece where quality men seem to be disappearing). The male voice is also decidedly absent or carefully inserted to match the argument, which reinforces the author's assumptions for the reader.
Post Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:17 am
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GrantherBirdly
D&D addict


Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 3145
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DeadAwake wrote:
Anyone following the gang rape incident and the string of events following it in India? That has exploded. I do like that people can come together for such a cause, but i believe there is a good deal of hysteria. As with all similair mass protests. Part of the lack of communication is undoubtedly that male superiority dominates governments too.

I absolutely support the call for harsher penalties against rape and abuse against women, since sometimes a slap on the wrist is administered and from what ive heard that seems to be case in India much of the time.

Ultimately, i believe the judicial system is an attempt at externalizing morals, which should be a back-up to inner conscience. However it seems that a good portion of people do not wish to struggle with themselves to crystallize their own conscience, independent of an external system. And im talking of those, who think of themselves as good people.


This recent article in the New York Times about the status of women in modern India blew my mind in the worst way possible. 100 million missing women???? Fuck.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/world/asia/in-rapes-aftermath-india-debates-violence-against-women.html?_r=0
Post Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:26 am
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ecapataz



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 1960
Location: Bonn, Germany
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India has been the worst place for women for a long time.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/India-worst-place-for-women-among-top-19-economies-Canada-best/Article1-870387.aspx
Post Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:37 pm
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Jack



Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 679
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I figured I would use this clusterfuck of a sex topic (whoops, forgot about the other one) to mention this. But has anyone noticed how hooking up has been streamlined into apps? Genius & Dangerous
Post Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:06 pm
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Reggie



Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 5765
Location: Queens, NYC
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ecapataz wrote:
Agreed but the urge to procreate is the strongest catalyst of sex.


Nope
Post Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:03 am
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Limbs



Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 903
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Jack wrote:
I figured I would use this clusterfuck of a sex topic (whoops, forgot about the other one) to mention this. But has anyone noticed how hooking up has been streamlined into apps? Genius & Dangerous


Like the flirt apps and stuff or the OKC app type dating site ones? I don't know the differences.

I'm thinking people, namely women, have acquired a bit of power through choice because of online dating type sites/apps/whatevers. The whens, wheres, and hows are much more in the woman's control. I'm interested to see some statistics because that's at least my experience.
Post Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:56 am
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Jack



Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 679
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Limbs wrote:
Jack wrote:
I figured I would use this clusterfuck of a sex topic (whoops, forgot about the other one) to mention this. But has anyone noticed how hooking up has been streamlined into apps? Genius & Dangerous


Like the flirt apps and stuff or the OKC app type dating site ones? I don't know the differences.

I'm thinking people, namely women, have acquired a bit of power through choice because of online dating type sites/apps/whatevers. The whens, wheres, and hows are much more in the woman's control. I'm interested to see some statistics because that's at least my experience.


There's an app called skout which is like facebook. Except the purpose is to not talk to your friends but to hook up/have sex with people. Its extremely easy to have sex with someone. Kinda scary like i was saying, kinda awesome though
Post Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:09 pm
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xGasPricesx



Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 1553
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Jack wrote:
Limbs wrote:
Jack wrote:
I figured I would use this clusterfuck of a sex topic (whoops, forgot about the other one) to mention this. But has anyone noticed how hooking up has been streamlined into apps? Genius & Dangerous


Like the flirt apps and stuff or the OKC app type dating site ones? I don't know the differences.

I'm thinking people, namely women, have acquired a bit of power through choice because of online dating type sites/apps/whatevers. The whens, wheres, and hows are much more in the woman's control. I'm interested to see some statistics because that's at least my experience.


There's an app called skout which is like facebook. Except the purpose is to not talk to your friends but to hook up/have sex with people. Its extremely easy to have sex with someone. Kinda scary like i was saying, kinda awesome though


Post Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:48 pm
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DeadAwake



Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 576
Location: Aus.
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http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/101east/2013/03/201335205155725918.html


Quote:


101 East
It's a man's world
Can perpetrators of violence against women play a role in preventing it and to what extent can early intervention help?
101 East Last Modified: 08 Mar 2013 19:35

Gang rape hit the headlines last year after the brutal attack of a woman on a bus in India’s capital, Delhi.

But new research suggests that gang rape is a wider problem across Asia - with some of the highest recorded levels of violence against women in the world to be found within the Asia-Pacific region.

Despite years of attention and millions spent on preventing it, there has been little or no measured decrease in its occurrence. And simply responding to the outcomes of violence has not been enough to end it.
Connect with 101 East

For the first time, researchers have compiled cross-country data from men - those who admit to using violence against women, and those who do not. It is hoped that understanding men’s own experiences will help to target the causes of violence against women and prevent it from happening at all.

Four UN agencies interviewed 10,000 men across seven countries in the Asia-Pacific, with startling results.

One in four said they had raped a woman or girl, while one in 25 admitted to taking part in gang rape.

Men say they start raping early, often in their teenage years and are frequently motivated by sexual entitlement. While the rates of violence are shocking, the variations between countries is giving hope to those working on programmes to prevent violence and rape, because it demonstrates that early intervention can make a difference.

The research confirmed that there is no single cause of violence, but a complex interplay of factors related to individual experiences, community norms, and societal elements.

101 East travels to Cambodia, a country representing some of the highest levels of rape in the region, to speak with men themselves about why they commit these crimes and to find out if the perpetrators can trigger new ideas for prevention.
Producer's blog: Facing a gang rapist

By Aela Callan

I stared at him for a long time and he stared back. I was not going to be the first one to look away. He is 31, married, with two daughters. He told me that his wife does not know that he likes to lure young women into going out with him, so that he and his friends can rape them.

It was a balmy evening on the busy river promenade in Phnom Penh, Cambodia’s capital, not the place that I had envisaged meeting a confessed gang rapist. Against this pretty, very public backdrop, he was detailing acts so horrific that I had to ask the translator two, three, even four times if I understood correctly.

We had reached the end of the interview and the length of the stare between us became uncomfortable - very uncomfortable. Then he looked away for a second, and his bravado evaporated. To me, he seemed almost pitiful.

Perhaps with the exception of this man, none of the gang rapists I spoke to during the filming of the 101 East programme It’s a man’s world, struck me as especially evil people. They were just ordinary men. Some had slight physical disabilities, seemed a bit socially awkward and a little lonely, but above all else they wanted to fit in with their friends, even if it was at the expense of women.

“What are they like?” A friend of mine asked when she contacted me during the filming of this difficult story, “Are they like a pack of rabid dogs?” While many would like to think that gang rapists are in some way psychopathic, they are actually just like other men. They have mothers, sisters, wives, daughters, girlfriends and every one of them told me they would not want the same thing to happen to the women in their own families.

So how is it that any man can justify this kind of behaviour towards a woman in someone else’s family? What has gone so wrong that one in five men, across Asia, rapes a woman or girl, in his lifetime? How can it be that one in 25 admits to taking part in gang rape? Those are the shocking statistics from a joint project by four UN agencies on men’s perpetration of violence against women across Asia and the Pacific.

The reasons men say they rape are complex. The majority feel sexually entitled, but in Cambodia which has one of the highest rates of gang rape, anger, punishment and fun featured more prominently as reasons than in other countries. Interestingly, alcohol played less of a role than many previously thought.

In December 2012, a horrific gang rape on a bus in Delhi led to the victim’s death and sparked global outrage. But more than twice the percentage of men in Cambodia admitted to gang rape compared to India (post-conflict sites in the Pacific are likely to be even higher).

That is not to say that gang rape is more common in Asia than in the rest of the world - it is just that no-one has done the research yet. People did not think that they could ask men these questions. I, for one, was shocked that men were willing to speak to me about this at all, let alone with a camera rolling. But they were. In fact, men are far more likely to admit carrying out a rape or gang rape, than a victim is to report it. Perpetration, it seems, does not carry the same stigma as being a victim.

Millions of dollars are spent each year trying to prevent violence against women, but few countries have managed to significantly decrease its occurrence. Governments and NGOs have been busy tackling the problem with a focus on women’s experiences as victims. Of course, the resources do need to go to victims. But it is now clear that men also need to play a role in prevention, as perpetrators and as victims themselves.

Sixty-five percent of men in Cambodia had experienced violence as children; 16 percent reported sexual abuse. This is not to say that all victims go on to be perpetrators, most of them do not, but this is a huge area of unmet needs. Of the hundreds of NGOs in Cambodia working on sexual crime, trafficking, violence and sexual abuse - only four have meaningful programmes targeting men and boys.

It sounds odd to say that the good news for Cambodia is that 52 percent of men raped for the first time when they were teenagers - more than 15 percent were under 15. Disturbing as this is, it is evidence that working with boys could make a remarkable difference.

“If one in five men rape, that means four in five don’t,” UN Researcher, Dr Emma Fulu told me. “And we need to work with those men as well, to find out what it is that can stop this kind of behaviour. What won’t work, is to simply demonise men.”

Some of the men I spoke to in Cambodia are showing leadership in this regard. They told me how hard it is to counteract the huge influence of peer pressure. How they themselves had been taunted as young men for refusing to join gang rape. They now lead social programmes, research projects and speak out in the media. In Cambodia, they say there is a cultural reluctance to speak to young men and boys about sex, leading to the development of unhealthy sexual relationships and damaging ideas.

For instance, some young men believe rape is more acceptable than masturbation. Violent pornography or violence in the home has become a manual for young men who have no other good role models.

Then, there is the effect of civil war. These are the sons and grandsons of people who suffered through the unimaginable horrors of the Khmer Rouge. This exposure to extreme violence, as well as the absence of positive influences and effective parenting practices, may have in some way warped perceptions of what it means to be a man.

Preventing rape is everyone’s business in every country around the world. Communities and families need to demonstrate healthy relationships, as much as governments need to have laws and proper enforcement. But most importantly, men themselves need to show boys healthy alternatives. Being a man is not just about being tough, it is also about being respectful, being empathetic and being kind.

Rape is a difficult topic to talk about. It makes most people squeamish, preferring to change the subject. Like an elongated stare into the face of a gang rapist, it will be uncomfortable. But continuing to turn away, simply because it is too awful to understand, is silent consent.
[/quote]
Post Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:09 pm
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Limbs



Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 903
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Jack wrote:
Limbs wrote:
Jack wrote:
I figured I would use this clusterfuck of a sex topic (whoops, forgot about the other one) to mention this. But has anyone noticed how hooking up has been streamlined into apps? Genius & Dangerous


Like the flirt apps and stuff or the OKC app type dating site ones? I don't know the differences.

I'm thinking people, namely women, have acquired a bit of power through choice because of online dating type sites/apps/whatevers. The whens, wheres, and hows are much more in the woman's control. I'm interested to see some statistics because that's at least my experience.


There's an app called skout which is like facebook. Except the purpose is to not talk to your friends but to hook up/have sex with people. Its extremely easy to have sex with someone. Kinda scary like i was saying, kinda awesome though


Hasn't there always been sites and stuff like that though? Phone's locating apps make it more immediate sure but I guess I'm missing you're point about it being dangerous. Or anymore dangerous than picking people up at a bar.
Post Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:59 pm
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Jack



Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 679
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Limbs wrote:
Jack wrote:
Limbs wrote:
Jack wrote:
I figured I would use this clusterfuck of a sex topic (whoops, forgot about the other one) to mention this. But has anyone noticed how hooking up has been streamlined into apps? Genius & Dangerous


Like the flirt apps and stuff or the OKC app type dating site ones? I don't know the differences.

I'm thinking people, namely women, have acquired a bit of power through choice because of online dating type sites/apps/whatevers. The whens, wheres, and hows are much more in the woman's control. I'm interested to see some statistics because that's at least my experience.


There's an app called skout which is like facebook. Except the purpose is to not talk to your friends but to hook up/have sex with people. Its extremely easy to have sex with someone. Kinda scary like i was saying, kinda awesome though


Hasn't there always been sites and stuff like that though? Phone's locating apps make it more immediate sure but I guess I'm missing you're point about it being dangerous. Or anymore dangerous than picking people up at a bar.


Its for like 17 - 21 year olds mainly. Shoulda mentioned that
Post Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:41 pm
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