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Ron Paul: The 5 Million Dollar Man
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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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thecontractor



Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 99
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Casey, a closed mind is a wonderful thing to lose.

Try to expand your horizons and realize why a person would not want to reside in a society where abortion is legal. Regardless of your beliefs, try to see it from their point of view.

States should have the right to choose if abortion is legal or not, not the federal government. If a state deems it acceptable, and you don't agree, you can go to another state. What is wrong with that? Do you think that someone who has an opinion that abortion is wrong should not have a voice? Are they morally inferior? Poppycock. Ron Paul may not approve of abortion, but he is not going to use the power of the presidency and federally mandate that it is illegal. He sees that as an abuse of power, a concept forign to our current leaders.
Post Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:27 pm
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Casey Carver



Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 1030
Location: minnesota
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what makes a state government any more suitable to choose whether or not abortion should be legal than any other governing body?

last time i checked, i'm not a pregnant women or doctor who practices abortions and don't feel that i, or anyone else that doesn't fall into one of those categories, should have any say in the matter. i'm not necessarily for or against abortion either way and don't really feel that i should have much say, if any at all, as to what a woman wants to do with her body.


Quote:


States should have the right to choose if abortion is legal or not, not the federal government. If a state deems it acceptable, and you don't agree, you can go to another state. What is wrong with that?


as futuristxen already pointed out, that creates a form of institutional discrimination against those that can't afford to go to another state. what makes something ok somewhere and wrong somewhere else?
Post Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:02 pm
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thecontractor



Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 99
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Casey Carver wrote:
what makes a state government any more suitable to choose whether or not abortion should be legal than any other governing body?



Pure and simple logic. 10 people can govern 100 with much more ease than 10 people can govern 10,000. It is also beneficial because those 100 get more of a say in what the 10 who are governing can do.

Casey Carver wrote:

what makes something ok somewhere and wrong somewhere else?


That is an excellent question. I implore everyone who reads this to ponder that for awhile.
Post Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:16 pm
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phataccino



Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4772
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I'm all for limiting the federal government but when it comes to civil rights--like control over your own body--the states can go ahead and fuck themselves if they wish to deny any group their civil rights. I have no problem with the federal government stepping in to secure someone's civil rights.
Post Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:26 pm
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tommi teardrop



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 2215
Location: Las Vegas
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Yeah but the problem is that pro lifers feel like they are saying the same thing as you, except that the group whose civil rights they want to protect are unborn children. They feel like the federal government needs to protect the rights of unborn children, and you feel like the federal government needs to protect womens' right to abort unborn children.

I am amazed at the fact that pro choicers are unable to see why people may disagree with them on the abortion issue. Many of you act as though abortion being okay is just a forgone conclusion.

Even though I have no problem with abortion and think that women should be free to choose, I can completely understand why some people might have an enormous moral problem with allowing abortions to take place. I dont think it makes you a religious fanatic to be opposed to abortion.

As a "civil rights" issue, abortion is an extremely unique one because it involves another "life," and is viewed by many as murder. Comparing it to slavery, segregation or gay marriage is way off base in my opinion.
Post Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:00 pm
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thecontractor



Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 99
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Very interesting; abortion compared to slavery.

Now we view slavery as unequivocally wrong.
200 years ago this was not so.
200 years ago abortion was unequivocally wrong.
Now this is not so.

Perhaps in 200 more years we will come up with an ultimate solution.
Instead of aborting the babies, make them slaves.
Post Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:07 pm
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phataccino



Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4772
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I understand the argument, it's just that, well, they're wrong.
Post Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:15 pm
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ibuprofen



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 967
Location: Portland, Oregon
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You're on point Mr. Contractor. Sharp as a blade carving space for reason. Heavy as a mallet pounding the nails of logic.
Thrilling! common sense re-appears in the most unlikely places.. The NP Forum, where you're applauded for closed minded liberalism and pinned a racist when you don't favour expansive government...




Thank you for your point of view.
Post Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:49 pm
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shambhala



Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 6303
Location: the barber of hard truths
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tommi teardrop wrote:
Yeah but the problem is that pro lifers feel like they are saying the same thing as you, except that the group whose civil rights they want to protect are unborn children. They feel like the federal government needs to protect the rights of unborn children, and you feel like the federal government needs to protect womens' right to abort unborn children.


Jesus... Are we really going to dignify religious fundamentalism like this? That shit is fucking scary, man. These are the kind of people who burn witches at the stake, lets not compare them to people who they've historically murdered, opressed, and silenced.

You just like to argue. I'm not willing to believe that you think it's equal footing here with people who think their state legislatures should double as bible study halls.
Post Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:59 pm
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shambhala



Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 6303
Location: the barber of hard truths
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ibuprofen wrote:
You're on point Mr. Contractor. Sharp as a blade carving space for reason. Heavy as a mallet pounding the nails of logic.
Thrilling! common sense re-appears in the most unlikely places.. The NP Forum, where you're applauded for closed minded liberalism and pinned a racist when you don't favour expansive government...




Thank you for your point of view.


And then there's you. Does it bother you that you process your inability to grasp the logic of other people's ideas by putting them into little mislabeled boxes?
Post Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:02 pm
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ibuprofen



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 967
Location: Portland, Oregon
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shambhala wrote:
And then there's you. Does it bother you that you process your inability to grasp the logic of other people's ideas by putting them into little mislabeled boxes?


I don't (and won't) liken abortion to murder but you compare protecting life to "religious fundamentalism".. I think you need to get out the box game, KID.

I see.. cling to science when it's convenient, but dip out when it doesn't support your thesis. come on homeslice..
Post Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:47 pm
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Dan Shay



Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 11245
Location: MN
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Just so y'all don't get it twisted,

I didn't compare slavery to abortion or 'pin' anybody a racist.

The chain gang was post slavery, by the way, but an obvious reference to certain states tendencys when left to their own devices on civil rights matters.
Post Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:02 pm
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tommi teardrop



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 2215
Location: Las Vegas
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Shambhala, all I'm saying is that there is much more to abortion than merely saying that it is a woman's right to choose. That I can understand why people are against abortion. I disagree with them, but I dont think they are all the nutcases that you seem to. For someone who champions themself as socially progressive, you seem to have tough time dealing with the fact that someone can disagree with you without being the bigot you imagine them to be.

The reason this whole thing got brought up in the first place is because someone attacked Ron Paul by pointing out that he was against abortion. I was sticking up for the guy because, first, I don't think a candidate's abortion stance should really matter all that much. Are you really so concerned about Roe v Wade being overturned that you will eliminate a candidate based on their views of abortion? Like the guy is going to stack the supreme court so that he can rid the country of evil abortions?

Second, if the guy is against abortion, is that really that unthinkable? Do you ever talk to people outside of your social circle and realize that not everyone shares your views on all issues?

Can you really not conceive that there might be a little bit of justification for people being opposed to the legalization of abortion? Is it really that crazy? You act like everyone that has a problem with abortion is outside planned parenthood with a paper mache fetus and coffin. Most people are really level-headed, they just have a different opinion than you.

The irony of the whole thing is that Ron Paul is the last guy that would ever use presidential power to usurp the constitution in order to change laws to his liking.
Post Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:02 pm
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Dan Shay



Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 11245
Location: MN
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Yeah.

Cause the position he's running for doesn't appoint supreme court justices or nothin'.
Post Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:04 pm
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mancabbage



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 9256
Location: london
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ibuprofen wrote:

I don't (and won't) liken abortion to murder but you compare protecting life to "religious fundamentalism".. I think you need to get out the box game, KID.




"Protecting life" wtf, do you live in a fucking forrest or something?

I suppose poor motherfuckers with literally no cash, living off of bread n beans n shit should probably just not be having sex at all eh?


Put it this way - you really believe in anti abortion?

Could you say that to a woman's face as she's about to walk into an abortion clinic?
Post Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:20 pm
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