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Strange Famous Forum > Social stuff. Political stuff. KNOWMORE

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Jesse



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
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Yo and Ayn Rand is also a real good writer with a great message. That is also important to note.
Post Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:06 am
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remind



Joined: 22 Jun 2008
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There is nothing wrong with her underlying message at the core, aside from it being unoriginal. Buuuut let's not start on Rand, eh?
Post Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:22 am
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
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redball wrote:
What the fuck are you on about? Can't you get it through your thick head that media consolidation is not a factor here? We've clearly illustrated that dozens of organizations the span the geopolitical spectrum report similar things about Gadhafi. You've provided zero evidence (aside from a fucking book that he wrote that no one on earth believes he actually governed by) that he hasn't committed crimes against humanity. Your entire argument hinges on this illuminati bullshit where we ignore how many different sources say the same thing, because you can find a couple of sources, all either unverifiable or Gadhafi's state run puppets or both, that say what you want to believe.

Netanyahu is very popular, are you going to start arguing that he's a good guy? How about Kim Jong-il? I'm sure you can find a state produces video showing just how popular he is.

BUT, News at 11! Gadhafi has supporters! Holy shit! This must mean we should have a beer with the guy and there's no legitimate complaint against him. It couldn't be that he's divided a country for decades and has created an ecosystem that is very favorable to certain factions and people. It couldn't be that people in Tripoli would be the natural recipients of this favoritism, either because they were there to begin with or that they moved there to help further the favoritism. It couldn't be! Because that just doesn't fit my world view!! AND YOU'RE ALL PUPPET SHEEP FOR BELIEVING ANY EVIDENCE THAT DOESN'T FIT MY WORLD VIEW!

That's okay, though. I have a new world view. I've found the rock you crawled out from under. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYFQZFL0yoo


There you go again getting all emotional and putting words in my mouth.

Your world view, my world view ... try to keep an open mind about things and maybe you won't get all reactionary on someone when they suggest an alternative.
Post Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:30 am
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redball



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6870
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Really, really, really thick.
Post Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:32 am
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Jesse



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 6166
Location: privileged homeless
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remind wrote:
There is nothing wrong with her underlying message at the core, aside from it being unoriginal. Buuuut let's not start on Rand, eh?
Aw c'mon you can't just be like "here's what I think, but let's not talk about the topic besides that!"

The underlying message is moral objectivism, the most antisocial doctrine possible. I'm surprised to hear you say there's nothing wrong with it!
Post Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:07 pm
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remind



Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 2189
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Haha well, I said that because there have been plenty of Rand discussions on here and I don't want the thread to get derailed. Utterly anti-social and individualistic, of course, but down further to the bone gristle is the message of "maximize your potential, produce, create". At least, that's the gist of what I've gotten from her stuff. And that's pretty hard to argue with, no?
Post Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:19 pm
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breakreep
homophobic yet curious


Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 6627
Location: Fifth Jerusalem
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firefly wrote:

Your world view, my world view ... try to keep an open mind about things and maybe you won't get all reactionary on someone when they suggest an alternative.


My world view is that all salsa is made in Poland and only in Poland. Every flavor of every brand of salsa that you can buy at every store in the world is ultimately made in Poland.

Further, it is all made at the same factory. Further, it is all the same flavor and the same company, they just write different things on the labels on them depending on where you are.

This confuses people so that they feel the need to turn somewhere for trust. They give that trust to the Polish government, which is actually every government, just with a different label on it depending on where you are.

This is not a metaphor. It's not that all governments are similar to Poland, it's that all governments are actually the Polish government. You are a Polish citizen, with all the rights and responsibilities that being a Polish citizen entails.

I hope you can keep an open mind about this. It's my world view after all. It means a lot to me.
Post Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:37 pm
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breakreep
homophobic yet curious


Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 6627
Location: Fifth Jerusalem
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Rand was a bitter, shitty person. I think she was so bitter and shitty because no smart people liked her shitty bitter books. I mean that kind of rejection has got to seriously weigh on the middle-aged soulless aspiring writer.
Post Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:40 pm
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jakethesnake
guy who cried about wrestling being real


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6278
Location: airstrip one
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firefly wrote:
redball wrote:
What the fuck are you on about? Can't you get it through your thick head that media consolidation is not a factor here? We've clearly illustrated that dozens of organizations the span the geopolitical spectrum report similar things about Gadhafi. You've provided zero evidence (aside from a fucking book that he wrote that no one on earth believes he actually governed by) that he hasn't committed crimes against humanity. Your entire argument hinges on this illuminati bullshit where we ignore how many different sources say the same thing, because you can find a couple of sources, all either unverifiable or Gadhafi's state run puppets or both, that say what you want to believe.

Netanyahu is very popular, are you going to start arguing that he's a good guy? How about Kim Jong-il? I'm sure you can find a state produces video showing just how popular he is.

BUT, News at 11! Gadhafi has supporters! Holy shit! This must mean we should have a beer with the guy and there's no legitimate complaint against him. It couldn't be that he's divided a country for decades and has created an ecosystem that is very favorable to certain factions and people. It couldn't be that people in Tripoli would be the natural recipients of this favoritism, either because they were there to begin with or that they moved there to help further the favoritism. It couldn't be! Because that just doesn't fit my world view!! AND YOU'RE ALL PUPPET SHEEP FOR BELIEVING ANY EVIDENCE THAT DOESN'T FIT MY WORLD VIEW!

That's okay, though. I have a new world view. I've found the rock you crawled out from under. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYFQZFL0yoo


There you go again getting all emotional and putting words in my mouth.

Your world view, my world view ... try to keep an open mind about things and maybe you won't get all reactionary on someone when they suggest an alternative.


You do realize that you are the one posting the single viewpoint and there are other people posting as many views as possible, including ones similar to yours, right?

edit: while I'm mentioning it, I'd like to thank crash again for taking the time to post, as well as everyone else, including firefly (even if we do give him shit). This is the single best place I've found for information on anything related to this topic.
Post Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:03 pm
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5453
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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How Libya is making smart people turn stupid
http://warincontext.org/2011/04/16/how-libya-is-making-smart-people-turn-stupid/

Goings on in Tripoli
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13058327

Libyan rebels plan action in Tripoli
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/15/libyan-rebels-plan-geurrilla-action

Hifler, the guy the US sent to Libya to lead the rebels, is complaining about the lack of support he’s getting
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/04/12/2796207/libyan-rebel-chief-with-us-ties.html

Dispatch from Misrata, under siege by Gaddafi’s forces, complete with Green Day lyrics
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/world/africa/17misurata.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2

Pictures from Misrata
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/8443704/Libya-exclusive-pictures-from-Misurata-by-Telegraph-photographer-Geoff-Pugh.html?image=5

Schools in Benghazi are closed, kids learn first aid instead
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/04/15/life_lessons?page=0,0

Syria update
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/20/world/middleeast/20syria.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/19/bashar-al-assad-syria-strategy

Will the crackdown in Bahrain create terrorists?
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/04/14/is_bahrain_creating_a_new_terrorist_threat?page=0,0

Saudi Arabia is not too happy about all this freedom stuff
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/04/14/outraged_in_riyadh?page=0,0

Wael Ghonim takes the IMF to task, at an IMF roundtable
http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/04/15/wael_the_plumber

The struggle to create labor parties in Egypt
http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/401570

The NDP, Mubarak’s party, has finally been dissolved
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gZ5num5xHXMx3B2tCPEjRI_usq1w?docId=69f5b0dedcdd48e48a637c9829866ae9

Thomas Friedman: condescending nitwit
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/04/13/friedman_hotel_lede

What makes the Arabs a people?
http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/what-makes-the-arabs-a-people

Short essays from Arabs on what Arab spring means to them
http://www.opendemocracy.net/david-hayes/arab-spring-protest-power-prospect

U.S. Groups Helped Nurture Arab Uprisings
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/world/15aid.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

Uplifting numbers from a survey of Americans perceptions of the Arab world
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/rc/reports/2011/0412_middle_east_poll_telhami/0412_middle_east_poll_press_release.pdf
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/rc/reports/2011/0412_middle_east_poll_telhami/0412_middle_east_poll_telhami.pdf

Italian ISM activist murdered in Gaza by al-Qaida inspired group
http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/hamas-official-hints-israel-killed-italian-activist-to-intimidate-future-gaza-flotilla-members-1.356193?localLinksEnabled=false
Post Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:45 am
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firefly



Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal
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Obama's fighting the good fight ...

Nothing says "spreading freedom" like the use of predator drones.

Post Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:43 am
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5453
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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i'm not sure if the drones are a bad thing. i don't know enough about their ability to avoid civilian casualties versus manned aircraft to say one way or the other. one thing's for sure, this isn't analogous to yemen or pakistan, where we're blowing up huts where we think al-qaida operatives are. the drones would be taking out tanks and other military targets, which from what i understand, they are better able to do since they can fly lower and slower than manned aircraft. but how good are they at identifying when attacking targets would pose an undue risk to civilians?


New Political Parties in Egypt
http://www.theworld.org/2011/04/egypt-political-parties/
http://english.ahram.org.eg/~/NewsContent/1/64/10342/Egypt/Politics-/Ahram-Onlines-idiots-guide-to-Egypts-emergent-poli.aspx

Egypt’s yawning social divides are now exposed
http://www.thenational.ae/thenationalconversation/comment/egypts-yawning-social-divides-are-now-exposed?pageCount=0

In Egypt, revolution moves into the factories
http://www.npr.org/2011/04/20/135542498/in-egypt-revolution-moves-into-the-factories

The situation in Bahrain continues to worsen
http://mondediplo.com/blogs/bahrain-divide-repress-and-rule
http://chronicle.com/article/Bahrains-Crackdown-Extends-to/127219/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/bahrains-secret-terror-2270675.html

The future of al-Nahda, Tunisia’s Islamist party
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/arb/?fa=show&article=43675&utm_source=Arab+Reform+Bulletin&utm_campaign=75402b9fd8-ARB+Weekly+%28English%29&utm_medium=email

The ineffective arms of the Libyan rebels
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/world/africa/21rebels.html?_r=2&hp

Drones can be used by Nato forces in Libya, says Obama
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/21/nato-wants-drones-target-misrata

Interactive map of Libya
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/02/25/world/middleeast/map-of-how-the-protests-unfolded-in-libya.html

Libyan rebels overrun strategic supply route on the Tunisian border
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/africa/110421/tunisia-libya-border-fighting-gaddafi

Misrata, still under siege by artillery and snipers
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/04/20/world/middleeast/AP-ML-Libya-Hospital.html
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/04/20/world/middleeast/AP-ML-Libya-Ocean-Lifeline.html

The fog of intervention
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2011/04/the-libyan-mission.html#entry-more

Libyan rebels build parallel state
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703648304576265021509675668.html

As British Help Libyan Rebels, Aid Goes to a Divided Force
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/20/world/africa/20benghazi.html?pagewanted=1

War in Libya Could Drag On, Military Analysts Say
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/world/africa/21nato.html

Firefly isn’t the only one defending Gaddafi
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/19/gaddafi-violence-exaggerated-british-group

Assad is losing control in Syria. The concessions haven’t slowed the protests and the violence has only brought more people out into the streets
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/world/middleeast/21syria.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/23/world/middleeast/23syria.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/middleeast/la-fg-libya-plea-20110420,0,5707361.story

Discontent in Saudi Arabia
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/14/saudi-elite-revolution-conservative-modern

The power struggle between Hamas and Fatah
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/arb/?fa=show&article=43586&utm_source=Arab+Reform+Bulletin&utm_campaign=03474a3dc6-ARB+Weekly+%28English%29&utm_medium=email

The Second Arab Renaissance
http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/04/14/the_second_arab_renaissance
Post Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:37 pm
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crash



Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5453
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption
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Turkish Leader Says Gaddafi Must Step Down Immediately. Until this point, Turkey had taken something the middle road. It has a lot of economic interests in Libya and seemed to be playing it safe. Clearly, it thinks that Gaddafi is on his way out.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/04/world/africa/04libya.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

UN leaves Tripoli
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13253896

Gaddafi is now arming civilians
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/27/gaddafi-arms-17-libyan-nato

Hidden Workshops Add to Libyan Rebels’ Arsenal
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/04/world/africa/04misurata.html

Inside a city running on fear
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/middleeast/la-fg-libya-letter-20110501,0,458753,full.story

Death of Saif Al-Arab Gaddafi may backfire for Nato
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13252192

Nonviolence in Palestine: “The international community has been asking for years where the Palestinian nonviolent movement is,” Joseph Dana says from his home in Jerusalem. “Well, here it is. And the Americans are nowhere to be found.”
http://warincontext.org/2011/04/30/when-montgomery-comes-to-nabi-saleh/

Fatah and Hamas: Tectonic plates start to shift
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/29/fatah-hamas-tectonic-plates-editorial
http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2011/04/29/adam-shatz/a-major-step/

Good article on Salafism in Gaza
http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/04/25/gazas_salafis_under_scrutiny

Bashar al-Assad's inner circle
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13216195

In Syria, some of the army has defected to the opposition
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/04/2011428182333234775.html

Robert Fisk: Out of Syria's darkness come tales of terror
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-out-of-syrias-darkness-come-tales-of-terror-2276392.html

Syria: Some Shock, No Awe
http://rosslandtelegraph.com/news/oped/qunfuz-some-shock-no-awe-11119

Who’s Who in the Syrian Opposition
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/04/29/who_s_who_in_the_syrian_opposition?page=full

Syrian Businessman Becomes Magnet for Anger and Dissent
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/world/asia/01makhlouf.html

Syrians Under Siege
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2011/apr/29/syrians-under-siege/

Crunch-time for the Syrian regime
http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/04/29/crunch_time_for_the_syrian_regime

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood Sticks With Bin Laden (this is an over simplification but still it’s important to point out).
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/05/egypts-muslim-brotherhood-sticks-with-bin-laden/238218/

The myth of nonviolence in the Egyptian Revolution
http://www.arabawy.org/2011/04/27/suez-revolution/

Egypt FM: Gaza border crossing to be permanently opened
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/egypt-fm-gaza-border-crossing-to-be-permanently-opened-1.358690
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/egypt-warns-israel-don-t-interfere-with-opening-of-gaza-border-crossing-1.358969

Investigative report: Escape from Marg prison
http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/422118

Egypt’s role in Palestinian unity
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/28/egypt-revolution-players-palestinian-pieces

ElBaradei suggests war crimes probe of Bush team
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_elbaradei_memoir

In Shift, Egypt Warms to Iran and Hamas, Israel’s Foes
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/29/world/middleeast/29egypt.html

Morocco: Reform or Fall
http://www.economist.com/node/18587225?story_id=18587225

Yemen’s Existential Crisis
http://www.merip.org/mero/mero050311-1

Coming out of the Arab woodwork: Extreme Islamists are growing more confident in the wake of the upheavals
http://www.economist.com/node/18621471?frsc=dg|a

The Inner Lives of Wartime Photographers
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/08/magazine/mag-08lede-t.html

Why do the Arab kingdoms survive as the republics fall?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/27/arab-kings-middle-east-uprisings

The Post-Islamacist Revolutions
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/67812/asef-bayat/the-post-islamist-revolutions?page=show

On Bin Laden’s Death and the Arabs
http://www.arabist.net/blog/2011/5/2/on-bin-ladens-death-and-the-arabs.html
Post Fri May 06, 2011 12:41 pm
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Dan Shay



Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 11242
Location: MN
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crash wrote:

Morocco: Reform or Fall
http://www.economist.com/node/18587225?story_id=18587225
l


Put Morocco on the radar.

The world's diminishing supply of an extremely precious resource, phosphorus is going to make this the country to severely destabilize in the coming decade.

Archer Daniels Midland would not be able to be the Breadbasket to the World otherwise.
Post Fri May 06, 2011 6:06 pm
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Mikal kHill



Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 6844
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breakreep wrote:
Rand was a bitter, shitty person. I think she was so bitter and shitty because no smart people liked her shitty bitter books. I mean that kind of rejection has got to seriously weigh on the middle-aged soulless aspiring writer.


Four times the steaaaaaaak!!!!!
Post Fri May 06, 2011 9:22 pm
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