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Plum Puddin'



Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 1810
Location: Run Ebola, Run.
Ferguson  Reply with quote  

What the fuck America?



2 Journalists were arrested, now released. Police trying to stop other media getting in.

Cops tear gas reporters and dismantle equipment.






Cops or soldiers?




Good grief.
Post Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:02 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8529
Location: Third Coast
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It's starting to look like an peacekeeping mission in Iraq over in Missouri. Fucking hell. Things are definitely getting out of control.
Post Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:43 pm
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Mark in Minnesota



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 2000
Location: Saint Louis Park, MN
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Yeah. It's hard to see how things can get better from here without getting a whole lot worse first.

I don't think I've heard of an American local government losing the plot this badly since Hurricane Katrina.
Post Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:50 pm
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Limbs



Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 887
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I don't even know what to say.
Post Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:43 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8529
Location: Third Coast
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What's really awful about the killing of Michael Brown - aside from the obvious fact of his death - is that we'll likely never know for sure what happened. Even though multiple witnesses have said Brown was unarmed and had his hands up when he was shot it seems like it's coming down to the cop's word versus everybody else. But I will say that no weapon of any kind was found on Ferguson, and as an officer of the law you have non-lethal recourse if faced with someone who may have been disorderly.

From an objective standpoint, it'll be interesting to see how this situation plays out in comparison to the Trayvon Martin case. From a subjective standpoint, my instinct, based on witness testimony, is that the as yet unnamed cop straight-up murdered Brown. At a minimum they acted with excessive and deadly force for reasons they cannot justify. No matter what happens, the cop will never be able to work in that area again, I imagine, and rightfully so.
Post Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:27 am
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T-Wrex
p00ny tang


Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 6393
Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Reading the comment sections on news sites; it's pretty apparent......
White people want 40 acres and a mule every time a black crowd gets unruly.

Yeah, ok, hillbilly... It's oh so original and funny to say....
"If Obama had a son, he'd look like Michael Brown."

Post Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:41 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8529
Location: Third Coast
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The autopsy has revealed that Brown was shot 6 times, and twice in the head. 1 times was far too many, and 6 is just excessive and brutal. Some crazy shit is going to happen before all of this is over.
Post Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:14 am
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8529
Location: Third Coast
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Now the National Guard has been called in, and the US Attorney General is flying out to assess the situation. Even Amnesty International, which never gets involved in domestic affairs, is in Ferguson to assess and observe. We might be watching a watershed race relations event unfold before our eyes.

Also, I read that the claim that Brown was wanted for robbing a store that same night has now been proven false. Apparently he just got into a verbal scuffle with the shopkeep over not being able to pay for a few cigars. The store owner has come out and said that they didn't file any charges or claims against Brown.

Finally, Facebook is totally silent, at least in my friend feed, on Ferguson. Everybody is obsessed with the goddamn icebucket challenge.
Post Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:47 am
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8529
Location: Third Coast
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Now the police are arresting 90-year old Holocause survivors. Missouri can sleep tonight.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/18/hedy-epstein-arrested-ferguson-holocaust-_n_5689822.html?cps=gravity
Post Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:59 am
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xGasPricesx



Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 1521
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Captiv8 wrote:

Also, I read that the claim that Brown was wanted for robbing a store that same night has now been proven false. Apparently he just got into a verbal scuffle with the shopkeep over not being able to pay for a few cigars. The store owner has come out and said that they didn't file any charges or claims against Brown.



Do you have a source on this? I looked around a bit and could only find one less than reputable source claiming that the shopkeeper and employee wasn't even sure that the man in the video was Brown. I do hope this can turn into a watershed moment for race relations here in America, it was sad watching the Trayvon conversation devolve more and more into the "who was the aggressor" as opposed to talking about the underlying issues surrounding the case, although my view on that could also be colored heavily by the fact that I was watching most of the conversation play out on reddit, who quickly turned on Trayvon and started calling him a "thug" and all that bullshit.

It does seem something big is happening here, and I can only hope we are at a point that we can have a serious conversation about it as a nation. These kinds of protests, and riots, don't just happen for no reason. There are clearly serious issues that need to be addressed, wounds that need to be healed that have been overlooked for way too long. I just hope we are ready for it, results so far have been mixed, but I'm not entirely optimistic.
Post Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:57 am
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8529
Location: Third Coast
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I read it through a friend's post on Facebook yesterday, and my efforts to find it again today have been futile. Admittedly, it wasn't from a reputable news source, but I'm running with it anyway because the Brown-as-robbe angle is a smokescreen either way. Last time I checked you don't shoot somebody for petty theft, especially when they're unarmed. I think the possibility of Brown as a thief is just a limp-wristed attempt to make the shooting somehow seem justified, in a way similar to hoodies as thug-wear and Skittles as guns justified Martin's death.
Post Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:40 am
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xGasPricesx



Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 1521
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Captiv8 wrote:
I read it through a friend's post on Facebook yesterday, and my efforts to find it again today have been futile. Admittedly, it wasn't from a reputable news source, but I'm running with it anyway because the Brown-as-robbe angle is a smokescreen either way. Last time I checked you don't shoot somebody for petty theft, especially when they're unarmed. I think the possibility of Brown as a thief is just a limp-wristed attempt to make the shooting somehow seem justified, in a way similar to hoodies as thug-wear and Skittles as guns justified Martin's death.


Well the weird thing is that it's been widely reported the cop had no idea about the "robbery", he stopped Brown just for walking in the road. What exactly happened next I don't know, but it's a damn tragedy either way. I'm just wondering what it would mean for this whole thing if Brown actually became aggressive before the cop started shooting. All we know right now is that he was shot from the front, but we don't know how close of range. Does the conversation shift dramatically if he had charged the cop though? I would hope not because this is obviously not a singular event, but I can already see all the headlines if we find out that's the case.
Post Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:00 pm
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Captiv8



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8529
Location: Third Coast
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xGasPricesx wrote:
Captiv8 wrote:
I read it through a friend's post on Facebook yesterday, and my efforts to find it again today have been futile. Admittedly, it wasn't from a reputable news source, but I'm running with it anyway because the Brown-as-robbe angle is a smokescreen either way. Last time I checked you don't shoot somebody for petty theft, especially when they're unarmed. I think the possibility of Brown as a thief is just a limp-wristed attempt to make the shooting somehow seem justified, in a way similar to hoodies as thug-wear and Skittles as guns justified Martin's death.


Well the weird thing is that it's been widely reported the cop had no idea about the "robbery", he stopped Brown just for walking in the road. What exactly happened next I don't know, but it's a damn tragedy either way. I'm just wondering what it would mean for this whole thing if Brown actually became aggressive before the cop started shooting. All we know right now is that he was shot from the front, but we don't know how close of range. Does the conversation shift dramatically if he had charged the cop though? I would hope not because this is obviously not a singular event, but I can already see all the headlines if we find out that's the case.


I'd like to know if the Ferguson police carry tasers or other non-lethal weapons. Let's say Brown was being aggressive and charge Darren Wilson. Was his only option to shot Brown 6 times? There is no scenario I can think of where an unarmed man needs to be shot 6 times in broad daylight, or at all, aggressive or not. Wilson would have said if there was a struggle or anything like that. Apparently no powder residue has been found on Brown either, not yet anyway, which would indicate that the shots were not fired at close range. The bottom line is that - based on witness testimony alone - Darren Wilson murdered Brown. Nothing here seems remotely justifiable.
Post Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:50 pm
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xGasPricesx



Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 1521
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I'm not even trying to play devil's advocate here, I'm just wondering about some things. I did read about the 2nd autopsy that the family had requested, and I know the examiner said he didn't find any gun powder on the body but he did not have access to Brown's clothes, has that changed? Does anyone know if an autopsy report that included an examination of the clothes has been released?

Also, here's the other thing I've been wondering about and I could be wrong, but I was always told that if officers draw their gun then they shoot to kill, not to injure or maim. That would be the only even somewhat legitimate reason I could see for the officer shooting Brown 6 times, and that's only if he had legitimate reason to draw his gun in the first place, which it seems very likely he didn't as Brown was unarmed himself. I don't know what kind of non-lethal weapons police there carry, but I do know all officers in my own state carry a taser and pepper spray as well as their gun. I don't know the specific procedures on when to use which though.

Edit: I don't mean to suggest that I think the protests are unwarranted or anything like that. I think the protests are totally warranted and that there are some very big issues at play. I also feel the way the police department and the city have handled the situation so far has been absolutely abysmal, and their releasing of the convenience store tape was a pretty deplorable hail mary. I'm just confused by a lot of contradicting witness statements and all that, I'm also trying to decipher if the blame lies solely with the individual officer or with official policies. If it turns out the officer murdered Brown in cold blood though, which I'll admit does seem likely, then I do hope he is tried and convicted. But I also hope the conversation about all the issues surrounding this continue outside of this particular case.
Post Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:55 pm
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DeadAwake



Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 567
Location: Aus.
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Is that a camera mounted to one of the officers helmets in that first picture?
Post Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:25 am
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