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Lets talk about Islam and Liberals
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Limbs



Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 1071
Lets talk about Islam and Liberals  Reply with quote  

Since I'm the only one posting threads anymore I want to balance it out a bit and take the convo me and jenkins started in the podcast thread here.

Its a hot topic on the social media right now.





Post Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:21 pm
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CriticalTheory_Breakfast



Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 1423
Location: NYC/Rochester
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Ben Affleck is a silly, silly man. And I don't know much about Ayaan Hirsi except that she was weirdly under attack in a Jon Stewart interview once in which he argued against points she wasn't making.

I will say this, though. By and large, liberals who defend Islam as a religion know very little about it. They know very little about what it means to be Muslim in countries that are governed with religious law. They certainly haven't spoken to many Arab ex-Muslims about what THEY think of the religion.

I think Muslims need defending in America, because they get the shit kicked out of them in every possible way in our society, and in our media. Affleck's problem is that he equates that well-intentioned mission with actually understanding Islam, which he does not.

Reza Aslan is really fucking smart, but he also has his own agenda. That agenda is to explain away everything bad that is said about the religion, and he's brilliant at it. I don't trust a guy who has an answer for everything, especially when it is pretty contradictory to what I've known to be true.

The "draw Mohammad" lady from Texas is a GREAT example of something we need to reckon with as liberals/lefties/moderates/whatever. She's probably the biggest douche of all time, but if she is actually risking her life by drawing a picture (which she is) then we might want to consider how we feel about that. Cause that is sillier than Ben Affleck.

I do disagree with Hirsi about being wrong to call it bigotry, though. Calling all criticism of Islam bigotry is obviously ridiculous, but a lot of Americans MAIN problem with Islam is that they just hate Muslims. I just think we can back way from defending the religion itself and still defend the people who need defending.

Rallying that Islam is violent and must be stopped is bigotry, but to say that it is a peachy fucking sunny religion that is pleasant for everyone involved is just straight up naive.
Post Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:43 pm
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Limbs



Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 1071
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As far as I can tell Reza is willingly deaf to nuanced arguments. It's frustrating as all hell. And I think his willingness to misrepresent Sam harris's arguments is unforgivable. Especially if I am Sam Harris. Sam's patience is truly remarkable.

http://www.quilliamfoundation.org

These people are literally risking their lives for speaking out on Islam.
Post Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:43 am
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Dan Shay



Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 11247
Location: MN
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My criticism of Ayaan Hirsi would be that she works for the same people that brought you The Bell Curve.

I would also be curious to see what Pat Buchanan type economic interests are behind the Quilliam Foundation.

The free speech argument to depicting the Prophet (BPUH) I do not agree with and I think in the United States there is some precedence behind it.

I think it falls under Harmony Korine's project Fight Harm category of disorderly conduct. It's lazy polemics of the highest order.
Post Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:49 pm
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mancabbage



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 9285
Location: london
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man... way back when this place woulda had a 50 pager on those ISIS guys, woulda been cool to read. I find that gang of nuters truely surreal tho, well to do kids from fuckin marylebone in london going over there and taking heads off, when you can still listen to their mixtape talkin bout blazing spliffs on youtube. Whole Syria thing seems like such a mess no one wants to prod it, fuck knows
Post Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:12 pm
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Limbs



Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 1071
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And now we have... Podcasts.

Megan Phelps from that God hates fags church. It's relevant. Very interesting.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/leaving-the-church
Post Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:10 pm
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Limbs



Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 1071
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How many times did Michael say "and I don't really know sam's position on this".

Post Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:37 am
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